Re: Z3's & BMWCCA Driving Schools(long) (archive)

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Your points are well taken. But to say the Z3 is unsafe where are the stats? I think this brings up the question are any cars safe? IMHO the school is made safer by the way it is run not by excluding car types. Under race conditions a full roll cage is the minimum safty equipment needed for any car. I have seen damage (off track into guard rails) at driving schools with cars like the 540 and M3 up to this time no Z3 damage (we have several ZM including 320hp euro engine) Mine is a 300hp turbo 2.8. I agree that no instructor should be forced into a car. BMW club of Canada does not seem to have a shortage of instructors willing to set in the lowly Z3. PPL on this board have survived roll overs in there Z3 on the highways. It is a safe car! Maybe the schools should be made safer?

If we put roll bars in of the height that is demanded no on could close their soft top. The HMS roll bar which is fine product is not high enough to meet these standards.

I hope this reply does not sound like a flame but like it was intended to be, a good discussion. I treat safty seriously. My mods to my Z3 in order That I installed them;

: I've read with interest your posts concerning High Performance Driving Schools and CCA...As the Driving Events Co ordinator of our CCA Club and an attendee to the DEC in Cincinatti last January let me make a few comments:

: 1) The stock Z3 is not safe for high performance schools, period...The roll hoops are below most of our helmeted heads and the foul method (duck when rolling) is not acceptable..

: 2) BMWCCA Nationally does have suggested guidelines that nearly parrot the SCCA rules on roll bars and restraints.. How ever it is up to the individual clubs sponcering the schools to make the final judgement..

: 3) These cars are wonderful, fantastic, and as much fun as one can have with their pants on...But Please, please folks don't endanger yourself or an instructor without making your car safe...I've spent a bunch of time on this issue and IMHO the minimum requirements are a roll bar like the HMS Sport bar and a 5 point harness...And even then there maybe not enough clearence if you or your instructor is very tall..So for me I opted for a set up that would meet SCCA Rules..

: 4) I know some of you have overheard comments from some CCA Folks that are negitive, I have too..But remeber a few simple things...All these folks are volunteers...It is easier to say no to some one that is combative and argumenitive than to try and work out a solution...you catch more with honey than with vinigar...I can tell you first hand that Nationally and at the local level clubs have spent a lot of time on this subject, more porpotionatly than any other, so don't feel short changed as a Z3 owner, cause our voices are being heard...But please don't do anything to drive a deeper wedge by being demanding or combative, work within the system and I think you'll accomplish the results your after..And remember High Performance Driving schools are a previledge, not a right.....

: I am happy to share any tech stuff I've gathered threw my R&D and will continue to be an advocate for the Z3...So no flames please...But it is up to us to make these cars safe... And if you are useing the comment that there aren't roll overs so we don't need bars I would venture to say you haven't taken a ride around at one of these schools to see there is real potential, leathal danger..If you drop 2 wheels off pavement there is a tremendous risk of something nasty..I've attended 6 schools now and going to Laguna Seca in November. So when you consider the $1000 to $1200 it costs to make these puppies safe over a number of schools it's not so bad...So there you have it, I've never posted my comments before and I hope you all take them as I have intended and that's in a positive light...Good driving, Tom

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